WinAVR

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WinAVR

E. Weddington
Hi Brian,

I wanted to let you know that I'm starting the process for a new WinAVR
version, hopefully to be released in early September. So I'll definitely
be looking for a possible avrdude 5.0 release. I'll be interested in any
pending patches and fixes for bugs. Also I should have a little bit of
time to help in committing patches and such.

Hope you're doing well,
Eric


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Re: WinAVR

Brian Dean

On Fri, Aug 26, 2005 at 03:02:33PM -0600, E. Weddington wrote:

> I wanted to let you know that I'm starting the process for a new
> WinAVR version, hopefully to be released in early September. So I'll
> definitely be looking for a possible avrdude 5.0 release. I'll be
> interested in any pending patches and fixes for bugs. Also I should
> have a little bit of time to help in committing patches and such.

Thanks for the heads up, Eric.  We do still have a few outstanding
patches and an issue of memory verification using the new STK500V2
programmer and I think that may extend over to the JTAG MkII also.
Also, a new bit-bang serial programmer is in the works, hopefully that
will be ready soon and be committed.  Additionally, I think USB
programmer support is also very close, though last I saw there were
some performance issues but the functionality is there.  Beyond that,
there are still some patches pending in the queue.  Hopefully we can
do a simultaneous release and your WinAVR will be able to include the
latest release of AVRDUDE.

Thanks,
-Brian
--
Brian Dean
ATmega128 based MAVRIC controllers
http://www.bdmicro.com/


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Re: WinAVR

E. Weddington
Brian Dean wrote:

>Thanks for the heads up, Eric.  We do still have a few outstanding
>patches and an issue of memory verification using the new STK500V2
>programmer and I think that may extend over to the JTAG MkII also.
>Also, a new bit-bang serial programmer is in the works, hopefully that
>will be ready soon and be committed.  Additionally, I think USB
>programmer support is also very close, though last I saw there were
>some performance issues but the functionality is there.  Beyond that,
>there are still some patches pending in the queue.  Hopefully we can
>do a simultaneous release and your WinAVR will be able to include the
>latest release of AVRDUDE.
>
>
>  
>
Thanks for the summary Brian, it's incredibly helpful. It sounds like
the memory verification for the stk500v2 is probably the biggest bug.
Because it may affect the jtag mkII, then I would think it also affects
a new avarice release.

I'm certainly fine with performance issues on new features, as long as
they are correct first. Better to be slow and correct, than fast and
buggy, no? :-)

I'll see what I can do to help roll in outstanding patches starting on
Monday or Tuesday.

Thanks
Eric



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Re: Re: WinAVR

Bernard Fouché
In reply to this post by Brian Dean
On 17:02:15 28/08/2005 Brian Dean <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Thanks for the heads up, Eric.  We do still have a few outstanding
> patches and an issue of memory verification using the new STK500V2
> programmer and I think that may extend over to the JTAG MkII also.ipi
  [snip]

Please check my latest patch: we are 3 persons using avrdude-BETA5.0 with
it all the day,flashing, reflashing, etc. and all known issues with 'v2'
seem to be now completly fixed.


  Bernard




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Re: Re: WinAVR

Henrik Brix Andersen
On Sun, 2005-08-28 at 19:27 +0200, "Bernard Fouché" wrote:
> Please check my latest patch: we are 3 persons using avrdude-BETA5.0 with
> it all the day,flashing, reflashing, etc. and all known issues with 'v2'
> seem to be now completly fixed.

Where can this patch be found?

Sincerely,
Brix
--
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Gentoo Metadistribution | Mobile computing herd

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Re: Re: WinAVR

E. Weddington
In reply to this post by Bernard Fouché
Bernard Fouch? wrote:

>On 17:02:15 28/08/2005 Brian Dean <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  
>
>>Thanks for the heads up, Eric.  We do still have a few outstanding
>>patches and an issue of memory verification using the new STK500V2
>>programmer and I think that may extend over to the JTAG MkII also.ipi
>>    
>>
>  [snip]
>
>Please check my latest patch: we are 3 persons using avrdude-BETA5.0 with
>it all the day,flashing, reflashing, etc. and all known issues with 'v2'
>seem to be now completly fixed.
>
>  
>
Thanks Bernard. Is this patch in the avrdude Patch Tracker?

Eric


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Re: Re: WinAVR

Bernard Fouché
In reply to this post by Henrik Brix Andersen
On 19:56:32 28/08/2005 Henrik Brix Andersen <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Sun, 2005-08-28 at 19:27 +0200, "Bernard Fouché" wrote:
> >  Please check my latest patch: we are 3 persons using
> >  avrdude-BETA5.0 with it all the day,flashing, reflashing, etc. and
> >  all known issues with 'v2' seem to be now completly fixed.
>
> Where can this patch be found?

Avrdude official site is on savannah :

http://savannah.nongnu.org/patch/?group=avrdude

It's patch #4338



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Re: Re: WinAVR

Bernard Fouché
In reply to this post by E. Weddington
On 20:47:49 28/08/2005 "E. Weddington" <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Thanks Bernard. Is this patch in the avrdude Patch Tracker?Ye
You're welcome :-). Yes the patch is on the tracker. I've submited also a
patch (#4328) to have avrdude taking care of device locking for Linux but I
wonder if it could work with Cygwin for WinAVR.


For patch #4338 ('v2' problems), one has to decide if some tokens must be
changed in avrdude.conf for atmega64/128 (I did not check other atmega's)
or if the code in stk500v2.c should look for other tokens.


For #4328 (Device locking) I never used autoconf & such so I do not know
how to have two constants being set at './congigure' time.


I'm happy with the shift to 'v2' (BTW I used it with different STK500 &
avrisp) since I think it is much faster and safer: for instance on some
project, with the v1 protocol, you had to remove the ISP probe and put it
back each time you wanted to flash since the avrisp was hung. 'v2' seems
much more resistant, even when the project is using the SPI ports for it's
own use. So the avrisp cable is less manipulated and last longer. At last,
if you forgot to plug the avrisp on the target, with 'v1' you had to run
avrdude another time. With 'v2', avrdude will be able to start its job as
soon as you plug the target : it loops until the isp answers.


So we have wrote/verifyed flash memory many times, with applications
starting from 0x0000, bootloaders, and hex files having both an application
and a bootloader but a gap in the middle and it works well.


We read and wrote also many times the eeprom, memory bits and lock bits and
everything is fine. However, at the moment we only use atmega64 and 128
chips.


 Bernard



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Re: Re: WinAVR

Joerg Wunsch
In reply to this post by Brian Dean
As Brian Dean wrote:

> Thanks for the heads up, Eric.  We do still have a few outstanding
> patches and an issue of memory verification using the new STK500V2
> programmer and I think that may extend over to the JTAG MkII also.

I'll verify whether Bernard's patch will similarly apply to the JTAG
mkII code.  However, for me, the preparations for avr-libc-1.4.0 have
some priority, so I'd be glad if other people with commit rights could
handle all those minor bug reports / patches that came in recently.

Also, with all the recent changes, it probably takes a release
engineer (hint, hint :) to update the NEWS file accordingly.  Note
that I subsequently committed patches to support new devices (and will
continue to do so as I proceed with avr-libc's new device support), so
the status quo is probably best taken by boiling down all the recent
ChangeLog entries.

--
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http://www.sax.de/~joerg/                        NIC: JW11-RIPE
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Re: Re: WinAVR

Brian Dean
In reply to this post by Bernard Fouché
On Sun, Aug 28, 2005 at 07:27:48PM +0200, "Bernard Fouch??" wrote:

> Please check my latest patch: we are 3 persons using avrdude-BETA5.0
> with it all the day,flashing, reflashing, etc. and all known issues
> with 'v2' seem to be now completly fixed.

Excellent!

When I tested V2 with an AVRISP, I noticed the speed is much slower
than V1.  Does anyone know if this is something that we are doing to
cause this, or if the V2 protocol is not lending itself to fast
programming?  I.e., are we implementing V2 in a way that pessimizes
throughput, perhaps as a carry-over to the way we were using V1?  Or
is the slowness inherent in the AVRISP device or the V2 protocol
implementation on the target device itself?

-Brian
--
Brian Dean
ATmega128 based MAVRIC controllers
http://www.bdmicro.com/


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Re: Re: WinAVR

Joerg Wunsch
As Brian Dean wrote:

> When I tested V2 with an AVRISP, I noticed the speed is much slower
> than V1.  Does anyone know if this is something that we are doing to
> cause this, or if the V2 protocol is not lending itself to fast
> programming?

I think both implementations still suffer from one-byte-at-a-time IO
operations.  I've modified that for the JTAG stuff to user larger
blocks where appropriate, but I didn't have the time and energy to
merge that back.

Hmm, ISTR I've once got a patch from Bernd Walter implementing
STK500v1 block IO but somehow that got lost.  I've anyone's curious
about adding it, I can dig it up.

--
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Re: Re: WinAVR

Bernard Fouché
In reply to this post by Brian Dean
On 22:21:37 28/08/2005 Brian Dean <[hidden email]> wrote:
> When I tested V2 with an AVRISP, I noticed the speed is much slower
> than V1.  Does anyone know if this is something that we are doing to
> cause this, or if the V2 protocol is not lending itself to fast
> programming?  I.e., are we implementing V2 in a way that pessimizes
> throughput, perhaps as a carry-over to the way we were using V1?  Or
> is the slowness inherent in the AVRISP device or the V2 protocol
> implementation on the target device itself?

I have the opposite point of view: I find v2 quicker. However the initial
v2 page write function was also writing pages full of 0xFF, and v1 was
already optimized to skip such pages. The submited patch also correct that
for v2.


  Bernard





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Re: Re: WinAVR

Brian Dean

On Sun, Aug 28, 2005 at 11:19:08PM +0200, "Bernard Fouch??" wrote:

> I have the opposite point of view: I find v2 quicker. However the
> initial v2 page write function was also writing pages full of 0xFF,
> and v1 was already optimized to skip such pages. The submited patch
> also correct that for v2.

Very good.  I will check out your patch and see if that speeds it up
for me also.  I'll go ahead and commit your patch at the same time.

-Brian
--
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ATmega128 based MAVRIC controllers
http://www.bdmicro.com/


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Re: Re: WinAVR

Brian Dean
In reply to this post by Bernard Fouché
Hi Bernard,

On Sun, Aug 28, 2005 at 11:19:08PM +0200, "Bernard Fouch??" wrote:

> I have the opposite point of view: I find v2 quicker. However the
> initial v2 page write function was also writing pages full of 0xFF,
> and v1 was already optimized to skip such pages. The submited patch
> also correct that for v2.

Thanks very much for the patch, Bernard.  I have tested it and it is
now comitted.

Note that I did not see any improvement in programming time, however.
My simple test with a 20K program file using an AVRISP reporting
itself as firmware revision 2.1 takes 55 seconds to program.  If I
recall, this is about 3 times as long as the Version 1 protocol.

It see a note from Erik Walthinsen who originally implemented the
STK500 V2 support saying the same thing:

On Tue, Mar 15, 2005 at 02:28:27AM -0800, Erik Walthinsen wrote:

> From: Erik Walthinsen <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [avrdude-dev] stk500v2 snapshot release
>
> [...]
>
> One thing you'll notice is that it's noticably slower than the older
> stk500 v1 protocol, which is kindof annoying.  However, it's solely
> a function of how fast the programmer is responding afaict.  There
> are no processor-intensive operations at all in the avrdude code
> that can cause that.  I'd be tempted to see if tweaking some of the
> avrdude.conf timeout values does anything, without breaking the
> actual programming cycle.

So ... at least I'm not going crazy.

-Brian
--
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ATmega128 based MAVRIC controllers
http://www.bdmicro.com/


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Re: Re: WinAVR

E. Weddington
In reply to this post by Bernard Fouché
Bernard Fouch? wrote:

>On 20:47:49 28/08/2005 "E. Weddington" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>  
>
>>Thanks Bernard. Is this patch in the avrdude Patch Tracker?Ye
>>    
>>
>You're welcome :-). Yes the patch is on the tracker. I've submited also a
>patch (#4328)
>
(thanks for the patch #)

>to have avrdude taking care of device locking for Linux but I
>wonder if it could work with Cygwin for WinAVR.
>  
>
As long as it doesn't mean POSIX calls, then yes, it would be great to
have the same feature.

>
>I'm happy with the shift to 'v2' (BTW I used it with different STK500 &
>avrisp) since I think it is much faster and safer: for instance on some
>project, with the v1 protocol, you had to remove the ISP probe and put it
>back each time you wanted to flash since the avrisp was hung. 'v2' seems
>much more resistant, even when the project is using the SPI ports for it's
>own use. So the avrisp cable is less manipulated and last longer. At last,
>if you forgot to plug the avrisp on the target, with 'v1' you had to run
>avrdude another time. With 'v2', avrdude will be able to start its job as
>soon as you plug the target : it loops until the isp answers.
>
>So we have wrote/verifyed flash memory many times, with applications
>starting from 0x0000, bootloaders, and hex files having both an application
>and a bootloader but a gap in the middle and it works well.
>  
>
And a big thanks to you and your colleagues for using v2 so much and
testing out all the functionality!

Eric


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Re: Re: WinAVR

Bernard Fouché
In reply to this post by Brian Dean
Brian Dean wrote:

>Note that I did not see any improvement in programming time, however.
>My simple test with a 20K program file using an AVRISP reporting
>itself as firmware revision 2.1 takes 55 seconds to program.  If I
>recall, this is about 3 times as long as the Version 1 protocol.
>
>  
>
What target are you using? Also did you check the avisp internal clock
with avrstudio?
It's a pity we have moved here all avrisp to firmware 2.1 and I have no
more avrisp with
1.x firmware to make timing comparisons, so my point of view is just a
feeling. But check
the avrisp internal clock, it may tick slowly.

  Bernard


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Re: Re: WinAVR

Joerg Wunsch
As Bernard Fouché wrote:

> It's a pity we have moved here all avrisp to firmware 2.1 and I have
> no more avrisp with 1.x firmware to make timing comparisons, so my
> point of view is just a feeling.

I've got still one STK500 with a 1.x firmware around, so I could compare
them.

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Re: Re: WinAVR

Bernard Fouché
In reply to this post by E. Weddington
E. Weddington wrote:

> And a big thanks to you and your colleagues for using v2 so much and
> testing out all the functionality!
>
> Eric
>
Well, we just had to work you know :-) and it took less time to
understand what was going wrong in v2
than looking for ways to downgrade a bunch of stk500 and avrisp we just
received, because avrdude is
very well designed and it is very easy to fiddle with it.

Now it would be nice to have avrdude to be able to process the  XML
definition files in
Atmel\AVR Tools\Partdescriptionfiles\ that avrstudio4 now provides.

These files could also replace avrdude.conf file format, if ever one can
reproduce these XML files without
copyright problems from Atmel. That would allow avrdude to be completely
synchronised with Atmel
delivery of new targets and their particular settings. For instance, for
v2, the value of the commands to
send to the ISP are defined in these files and so one can expect that v2
needs a particular command
value for target A and another for target B to do the same job.

Maybe it's alreay the case, I did not look in details at all the XML
files, I just focused on atmega64 &
128, my usual targets.

 From these files one should be also able to produce avrdude.conf but
also "include/avr/io*.h" files.

So maybe an external tool would be better to parse Atmel XML files and
then produce io*.h files
for avr-libc and avrdude.conf for avrdude.

    Bernard


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Re: Re: WinAVR

Joerg Wunsch
As Bernard Fouché wrote:

> Now it would be nice to have avrdude to be able to process the XML
> definition files in Atmel\AVR Tools\Partdescriptionfiles\ that
> avrstudio4 now provides.

Alas, Atmel considers these files ``Intellectual Property'' and thus
forbids redistribution outside of AVR Studio.  I've already tried to
get them opening their policy, but as this touches company lawyers and
such, this policy is probably not going to change quickly.

> These files could also replace avrdude.conf file format, ...

Nope, avrdude.conf contains quite a bit other stuff, in particular the
definition of the various programming adapter layouts.  Also, I think the
XML files don't have the actual ISP commands used as this knowledge is
not required for AVR Studio.

--
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Re: Re: WinAVR

Michael Holzt-3
> Alas, Atmel considers these files ``Intellectual Property'' and thus
> forbids redistribution outside of AVR Studio.

Which would not affect our ability to a.) add code to parse that files and
b.) create compatible files on our own.

If using such format would be an improvement, we should think about it.
After all it is not our fault if users of avrdude will take the files from
AVR Studio (when we do not provide compatible ones) and use them with
avrdude.


Regards
Michael

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